陈牧：寡人欲知，国之存亡所系何哉？先生教我。

萧凡：臣以为，国之所以存者，得道也；所以亡者，理塞也。故得生道者，虽小必大；有亡征者，虽成必败。国之亡也，大不足恃；道之行也，小不可轻。故存在得道，不在于小；亡在失道，不在于大。故乱国之主，务于广地，而不务于仁义；务于高位，而不务于道德。是舍其所以存，而造其所以亡也。

陈牧：先生之言是也，寡人受教矣。

chenmu：iwanttoknowwhatmattersabouttheriseandfallofanation，sirtaughtme。

xiaofan：ithink，thenationthrivesbecauseitupholdsjustice，thereasonwhythecountryisgoingtoperishisbecauseitisnolongerjust，insistonjustice，evenifthecountryissmall，itwillbecomestrong，withoutupholdingjustice，evenifthecountryisstrong，itwilldecline，theriseandfallofacountrydoesnotdependonitssize，butwhetheritupholdsjustice，thefaintingkingwasbusyexpandinghisterritoryratherthanpromotingbenevolence，theyarebusyfightingforpowerinsteadofcultivatingtheirvirtues，theygaveupjusticeandchosedeath。

chenmu:sirisright，iacceptyourteachings。

陈牧：太祖吏政尚严切，尚书决事，率近于重，吾欲革之，然孝子不改父之道，寡人当如何处之，先生教我。

萧凡：臣以为，先王之政，赏不僣，刑不滥。与其不得已，宁僣无滥。往者断狱严明，所以威惩奸佞，时势然也，奸佞既平，必宜济之以宽。大王即位，率由此义，而有司未悉奉承，犹尚深刻。夫为政犹张琴瑟，大弦急者小弦绝。大王宜隆先王之道，荡涤烦苛之法，轻薄棰楚以济群生，全广至德以奉天心，苟利于民，何不革之，显荣祖宗，此乃大孝也。

陈牧：先生之言甚善，寡人谨受教。

chenmu：thefirstemperorruledthecountryverystrictly，theministeralsohandledgovernmentaffairsharshly，iwanttochangethissituation，butiamafraidthatitisnotfilialpiety，whatamigoingtodo？sirtaughtme。

xiaofan：ithink，theholykinggovernsthecountry，anddoesnotindiscriminatelyrewardorpunish，itisbettertochoosearewardthantopunishindiscriminately，previously，thelawwasharshbecauseitpunishedevil，nowthattheworldhassettleddown，thelawshouldbeslightlymorerelaxed，sinceyoubecameking，youhaveaskedforthis，buttheministerdidnotdowhatyouaskedfor，anditwasstillharsh，governingacountryislikeplayingthestrings，ifthestringsaretootightandurgent，itwillbreak，youshouldfollowtheexampleoftheholykingingoverningthecountry，

adjustharshlawsandreducepenaltiestomakepeoplecomfortable，itisnecessarytocomplywiththewillofthepeople，ifitisgoodforthepeople，whycan‘titbechanged？itisgreatfilialpietytomaketheancestorsreceiverespectandremembrance。

chenmu:sirisright，irespectfullyacceptyourteachings。

陈牧：今朴政守孤城，力竭而退，寡人当如何处之？先生教我。

萧凡：臣以为，其以单兵守孤城，当契丹万余之众，连月逾年，心力困尽，凿山为井，煮靴为粮，前后杀伤北蛮数以千计，卒全忠勇，不为大晋耻，且契丹亦退，宜蒙显爵，以厉将帅。

陈牧：先生之言是也，寡人谨受教。

chenmu：nowpiaozhengdefendedtheisolatedcity，andeventuallyretreatedbecauseoflackofstrength，howshouldihandlethis？sirtaughtme。

xiaofan：ithink，hedefendedthecitywithveryfewtroopsandresistedmorethan10，000khitansoldiersformorethanayear，theyusedupalltheirenergyandstrengthandkilledthousandsofenemiesintheabsenceofwaterandfood，hisloyaltyandbraverydidnotinsultthecountry，moreover，thekhitanalsoretreated，youshouldgivehimapromotiontomotivatethewholearmy。

chenmu:sirisright，irespectfullyacceptyourteachings。